Re: Dope and pregnancy, What about Medical Marijuana ?

Personally I would say legalize all drugs, since their usage is a matter
of personal choice and morality.  My personal prejudice is against the
dogmatic reactionists that want to regulate morality.  I’d rather live
ethically myself, which means I am responsible for what I do NOT what the
person down the street is doing.

—Lee                                   *******************************
ftp site:  ftp.netcom.com/pub/freebird   |"The greater sin passion can |
Web page:  ftp://ftp.netcom.com          | commit is to be joyless."   |
           /pub/freebird/web/wlm.html    |      –Dorothy Sayers       |
                                         *******************************

24 Responses to “Re: Dope and pregnancy, What about Medical Marijuana ?”

  1. admin says:

    In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com>,
    freeb…@netcom.com (William L. Mahan) wrote:

    >I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    >can’t use heroin in the USA either.

    I just responded to a post in a sci.* group, and received, via snail,
    an info packet on Marinol published by its manufacturers.

    It is indicated in:

    1) anorexia secondary to AIDS

    2) nausea/emesis caused by chemo-therapy

    Put *that* in your pipe and smoke it ;)

    Best

    …………………………………………………………….

                  Dennis R. Hilton     <drhil…@kaiwan.com>

  2. admin says:

    >Glyn Hanton (g…@crosfield.co.uk) wrote:

    >: There’s always Marinol if that can be proscribed.

    That’s a pretty funny typo.

    In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com>,
    William L. Mahan <freeb…@netcom.com> wrote:

    >I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.

    It’s available, though not especially popular.


    Steve Dyer
    d…@ursa-major.spdcc.com

  3. admin says:

    >What About Medical Marijuana for Pregnant Women?

    first of all, let me just say it pisses me off with all the liberals that
    scream "legalize marjiuana"!  

    We have THC available and therefore there is no need to legalize dope.  I
    have heard of the 8 people in the US that have a presciption for marjuana
    and I listened to a radio station that interviewed one guy who described
    how he would pick up joints in a
    nice tin can from the pharmacy, he of course had this prescription for
    glaucoma.  Why smoke the stuff, we have enough smokers out there.  THC is
    already being used, esp. in the chemotherapy population, maybe we just
    need to formulate it in different forms (I can see it now: people
    stopping in the streets and puffing on what looks like and asthma inhaler!)
    and another problem with people
    just picking up a joint to "treat" themselves is that a dose is not
    standardized if you buy it from different hoodlums.  The very idea behind
    medicinal therapy is achieving specific therapeutic blood levels.

    Another thing is the problem with THC getting stored in adipose tissue,
    IT STAYS IN THE SYSTEM FOR LONG PERIODS, that is why we can detect it in
    people with blood and urine test, unlike compozine which is cleared from
    the system in a fair amount of time.

    If you feel like you want to experiment with another life (especially one
    that is not yours), you may want to consider the ethical realms of it.

    Wait until research can back up your little experiment with your wife and
    child.

    As far as being miserable with the pregnancy, you would think she would
    have learned her lesson from the first time.

    Abrupt, to the point, and no BS–just my 2 cents.

    -Adam

  4. admin says:

    Neil Johnson (n…@pokey.mc.com) wrote:

    : Ok, it seems the consensus is that marijuana MAY (no real proof yet
    : though) pose a very slight risk to fetal development. So the prudent
    : thing to do is avoid it.

    At this point, I was busy seriously disagreeing with you. I don’t think
    the prudent thing to do is avoid it at all. Seeing the other groups you’ve
    posted to (I’m reading this in alt.hemp) someone may be able to provide
    references, but I have never seen anything convincing saying that cannabis
    use is dangerous during pregnancy. I don’t suppose getting stoned off your
    face is a particularly clever thing to do, if for no other reason than
    the increased risk of general accidents, but I see no reason not to continue
    some mild use, especialy considering the fact that cannabis use could help
    with morning sickness as you have pointed out.

    Saying all that, I’m not a doctor, and I’m sure lots of people reading
    this are. I look forward to reading their comments.

    One thing though,, when your wife does her piss test, do they actualy
    check for THC. I don’t see why they would be specificaly looking for
    that assuming they are just testing to see if she is generally healthy.
    Maybe some of the medical proffesion reading this could clarify that
    aspect as well.

    Other than that, You, and your wife specificaly, have my sympathies and
    best wishes for having to live in this crazy crazy situation.


       Descartes thought an animal,          _     .
       That couldn’t talk,                  /##.,.##\          Glyn Hanton
       Couldn’t think, or so he taught,    #### ######    
       But to summise,                     ###@   @###     g…@crosfield.co.uk
       My cat thinks otherwise.             ##/ v \##
                                              ` ~ ‘    

  5. admin says:

    Marijuana is marijuana.  Just because it is labeled for medical use only
    does not imply that is somehow different from the street variety, though
    the potency is regulated.  And since marijuana is smoked, the smoking
    itself can cause effects on the blood flow to the fetus.  The presence of
    tar in the lungs decreasing the efficient flow of oxygen to the bloodstream.

    If the compazine doesn’t help, there are other anti-nausea drugs on the
    market, so a return trip to the physician is required here.  And remember
    its your wife’s body, not yours nor the doctor’s.  And she is also
    directly responsible for another possible person growing in her womb.  So
    she needs to assert herself to the doctor, but don’t expect medicinal
    marijuana.  It is closely regulated by the federal government and the
    doctor will have a mountain of paperwork to do just to prescribe it.  It
    is more difficult to prescribe than morphine.

    —Lee                                   *******************************
    ftp site:  ftp.netcom.com/pub/freebird   |"Between two evils, I always |
    Web page:  ftp://ftp.netcom.com          | pick the one I never tried  |
               /pub/freebird/web/wlm.html    | before."  –Mae West        |
                                             *******************************

  6. admin says:

    Glyn Hanton (g…@crosfield.co.uk) wrote:

    : Neil Johnson (n…@pokey.mc.com) wrote:
    : : Ok, it seems the consensus is that marijuana MAY (no real proof yet
    : : though) pose a very slight risk to fetal development. So the prudent
    : : thing to do is avoid it.

    : At this point, I was busy seriously disagreeing with you. I don’t think
    : the prudent thing to do is avoid it at all. Seeing the other groups you’ve
    : posted to (I’m reading this in alt.hemp) someone may be able to provide
    : references, but I have never seen anything convincing saying that cannabis
    : use is dangerous during pregnancy. I don’t suppose getting stoned off your
    : face is a particularly clever thing to do, if for no other reason than
    : the increased risk of general accidents, but I see no reason not to continue
    : some mild use, especialy considering the fact that cannabis use could help
    : with morning sickness as you have pointed out.

    My source on the fetal effects was Cherry and Markatz _Complications
    of Pregnancy_ 4th edition.  They cite 4 studies in there:

    1.  Greenland S, Staish D, Brown N, et al.  The effects of marijuana
    use during pregnancy.  American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology
    1972;72.574-579

    2.  Hingson R, Alpert J, Day N, et al.  Effects of maternal drinking
    and marijuana use on fetal growth and development.  Pediatrics
    1982;70:539-546

    3.  Kaminski M, Franc M, Lebouvier M, et al.  Moderate alcohol use
    and pregnancy outcome.  Neurobehavioral Toxicology and Tetrology
    1981;3:173-181

    4.  Little RE, Graham JM, Samson HH.  Fetal alcohol effects in
    humans and animals.  ADV Alcohol and Substance Abuse 1982;1:103-125

    I assume that marijuana was mentioned in the fetal alcohol articles.
    It would be worth looking up.

    I don’t see why people feel the need to defend women smoking pot
    during pregnancy.  I think marijuana is pretty safe, certainly
    safer than alcohol and I think it has a variety of medical uses
    I also think it’s a damn shame that people with cancer, AIDS
    glaucoma, chronic pain and muscle spasm disorders have to skulk
    around like criminals if they want to use it.  As far as I can
    tell, it has some distinct advantages over marinol, beginning
    with the immediate onset of effect from smoking and the way
    this allows people to more easily regulate dosage.

    But pregnancy is a special situation.  Pregnant women are advised
    to abstain from all kinds of otherwise innocous substances including
    aspirin, caffiene, over the counter cold remedies, even an occasional
    alcoholic drink.  Particularly during the first trimester, which
    is when morning sickness is most likely to occur.  The thing is:
    with pregnancy, one does not prove substances dangerous to the fetus.
    Because of the risks, one must adhere to a higher standard of proof
    and prove that a substance is *safe*.  Because we cannot and should
    not go experimenting on human women to prove this, we must rely
    on animal studies and on those cases where the risks to mother or
    baby are so great from illness that the potential dangers of a
    medication are warranted.  

    : Saying all that, I’m not a doctor, and I’m sure lots of people reading
    : this are. I look forward to reading their comments.

    : One thing though,, when your wife does her piss test, do they actualy
    : check for THC. I don’t see why they would be specificaly looking for
    : that assuming they are just testing to see if she is generally healthy.
    : Maybe some of the medical proffesion reading this could clarify that
    : aspect as well.

    This is not a part of routine prenatal care.  Urine is checked for
    sugar (indicative of diabetes), protein (indicative of kidney problems
    and toxemia) and sometimes for signs of urinary tract infections.  However,
    it might be checked for drugs like pot if the person is in a drug
    rehab program or on parole for a drug related legal conviction.

    ———————————————————————–
     Camilla Cracchiolo, RN     cami…@netcom.com    Los Angeles, CA

         Shrine of the Cybernetic Madonna BBS      213-766-1356
                  "The BBS for the information addict!"
    ———————————————————————–

  7. admin says:

    William L. Mahan (freeb…@netcom.com) wrote:
    : Marijuana is marijuana.  Just because it is labeled for medical use only
    : does not imply that is somehow different from the street variety, though
    : the potency is regulated. And since marijuana is smoked, the smoking
    : itself can cause effects on the blood flow to the fetus.  The presence of
    : tar in the lungs decreasing the efficient flow of oxygen to the bloodstream.

    There’s always Marinol if that can be proscribed. Everyone seems to say
    it’s not as good (possibly due to the fact that you are missing the other
    cannaboids, and it’s not as easy to regulate dosage), but if it’s the
    choice of that or something that makes you into a vegetable, maybe the
    doctor would proscribe that.


       Descartes thought an animal,          _     .
       That couldn’t talk,                  /##.,.##\          Glyn Hanton
       Couldn’t think, or so he taught,    #### ######    
       But to summise,                     ###@   @###     g…@crosfield.co.uk
       My cat thinks otherwise.             ##/ v \##
                                              ` ~ ‘    

  8. admin says:

    Ok, it seems the consensus is that marijuana MAY (no real proof yet
    though) pose a very slight risk to fetal development. So the prudent
    thing to do is avoid it.

    What About Medical Marijuana for Pregnant Women?

    One big point everyone is missing is medical marijuana & pregnancy.
    We all know marijuana is an anti-nausea drug. Well why not use it
    during pregnancy. Increased calorie intake, and less chance of medical
    complications (like dehydration due to nausea).

    I can see people cringing at the thought of pregnant women siting
    around smoking bones cause they think it will make themselves & the
    baby healthy & happy. But lets consider the flip side. With both my
    wife’s first & second (current) pregnancy she was effectively denied
    medical marijuana via frequent piss tests (standard procedure for many
    hospitals).

    Well during the first pregnancy she had a severe case of morning
    sickness which resulted in a constant battle to keep food & fluids
    down. (Really bad for the fetus) Then near disaster struck. She got
    the flu resulting mega dehydration & went into false labor (way too
    early).

    Well I rushed here to the emergency room where she was put on an
    IV-drip for rehydration & we prepared for a mega-premie baby! Well we
    where lucky & the baby never came out & my wife returned to normal.

    Ok, now consider if she was allowed medical marijuana. Maybe she would of
    had a normal enjoyable pregnancy?

    Well it gets worse. Pregnancy #2 in progress right now. Some morning
    sickness then wham, Subway gives her food poisoning. Nausea, vomiting,
    cramps. Exactly the thing chemotherapy patients use medical marijuana
    for. A phone call to her doctor gives us the typical advice, drink
    lots of fluids. So, shes now lying on the floor moaning in severe
    pain. She says she feels like she’s dying. (A typical normal food
    poisoning scenario.) Still none of the warning signs requiring
    hospitalization. Well I suggest medical marijuana, she cries, she has a
    piss test coming up in less than a week (remember frequent checkups
    cause she’s pregnant).

    Well we visit the doctor & she prescribes COMPAZINE. 25mg doses every
    8 hours. Now this is the very dangerous type of tranquilizer Jack
    Herer talks about in the Emperor (Used to cure marijuana smoking).
    The label warned that the main side effect is permanent brain damage
    manifested in many different forms including, parkinson (like)
    disease, permanent shakes, palsies, facial twitches, ticks,
    involuntary tongue movements (like sticking it out). Due to these side
    effects this tranquilizer label recommended against using Compazine if
    possible. The label only recommended Compazine as a last resort due to
    the side effects (brain damage). They recommended using safer
    tranquilizers like valium if possible. And if used they recommended the
    trying lowest dosage first (5mg from memory). Compazine was only to be
    used for psychotic mental patients where benefits out way the
    risks. (If you don’t believe me look compazine up in any old PDR).

    But our pharmacist & doctor both assured us that Compazine is what
    pregnant women are given for nausea. A statement I’m sure is true.

    I think its time the medical community gets a clue, yup marijuana
    might not be 100% safe but it sure beats the hell out of "zine" drugs
    when it comes to safety.

    So, now my wife has gone from vomiting & pain to a vegetable who just
    lies on the couch and watches TV. No more vomiting though!

    This is a sick fucking world we live in!

    ——————————————————————-

  9. admin says:

    Glyn Hanton (g…@crosfield.co.uk) wrote:

    : There’s always Marinol if that can be proscribed. Everyone seems to say
    : it’s not as good (possibly due to the fact that you are missing the other
    : cannaboids, and it’s not as easy to regulate dosage), but if it’s the
    : choice of that or something that makes you into a vegetable, maybe the
    : doctor would proscribe that.

    I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    can’t use heroin in the USA either.

    —Lee                                   *******************************
    ftp site:  ftp.netcom.com/pub/freebird   |"The greater sin passion can |
    Web page:  ftp://ftp.netcom.com          | commit is to be joyless."   |
               /pub/freebird/web/wlm.html    |      –Dorothy Sayers       |
                                             *******************************

  10. admin says:

    In article <39e9ae$…@oak.oakland.edu>,

    Adam  <awilm…@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> wrote:

    [Someone else wrote this:]

    }>What About Medical Marijuana for Pregnant Women?

    Now here comes Adam…

    }first of all, let me just say it pisses me off with all the liberals that
    }scream "legalize marjiuana"!  

    I have primary lateral sclerosis.  When you can come up with a drug
    than can relieve my muscle spasms in less than a minute…

    }Abrupt, to the point, and no BS–just my 2 cents.

    Me too.  I’ll leave the flaming for others, but let me say that it is
    people like you that really piss me off.


                     Galen Hekhuis  Np.D.    g…@virginia.edu  
    [X]                       Plays well with others

  11. admin says:

    In article A…@netcom.com, freeb…@netcom.com (William L. Mahan) writes:

    >Marijuana is marijuana.  Just because it is labeled for medical use only
    >does not imply that is somehow different from the street variety, though
    >the potency is regulated.  And since marijuana is smoked, the smoking
    >itself can cause effects on the blood flow to the fetus.  The presence of
    >tar in the lungs decreasing the efficient flow of oxygen to the bloodstream.

    It is my understanding  that MJ can be eaten as well as smoked.
    Haven’t you ever heard of  the stereotypical "MJ brownies"?


    Robert Allen, r…@sun.com

    DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and
            do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

        The Constitution of the United States: R.I.P, 9/13/94
            (the day Bill Clinton signed  the Crime Bill)

  12. admin says:

    In article <freebirdCyq89D….@netcom.com> freeb…@netcom.com (William L. Mahan) writes:

    >If the compazine doesn’t help, there are other anti-nausea drugs on the
    >market, so a return trip to the physician is required here.  And remember
    >its your wife’s body, not yours nor the doctor’s.  And she is also
    >directly responsible for another possible person growing in her womb.  So
    >she needs to assert herself to the doctor, but don’t expect medicinal
    >marijuana.  It is closely regulated by the federal government and the
    >doctor will have a mountain of paperwork to do just to prescribe it.  It
    >is more difficult to prescribe than morphine.

    There is another alternative that you may not have explored,
    accupressure.  There is an accupressure point about three fingers about
    the wrinkle on the wrist that controls nausea and vomitting.  In fact,
    you can buy a device, called SeaBands, that place constant pressure on
    this accupressure point and control nausea due to motion sickness and
    pregnancy.  Several women I know swear by them.  Some hospitals are using
    them to control post-operative nausea.  You can buy them in pharmacies or
    boating stores.


    ———————————————————————-
    Patrick Crawford                        Snail Mail: 13 Fountain Dr.
    e-mail: pcraw…@peinet.pe.ca                       Charlottetown, PEI
    phone:  (902) 894-8095 (home)                       Canada   C1A 6L9
            (902) 894-8553 (work)

  13. admin says:

    In article <freebirdCysF97….@netcom.com>, freeb…@netcom.com (William

    L. Mahan) writes:
    >Personally I would say legalize all drugs, since their usage is a matter
    >of personal choice and morality.  My personal prejudice is against the
    >dogmatic reactionists that want to regulate morality.  I’d rather live
    >ethically myself, which means I am responsible for what I do NOT what the
    >person down the street is doing.

    Agreed.  Most heartily.

    BTW:  A couple of years back there was a particularly touching piece
    in National Review from one of the contributors about his mother’s
    battle with cancer and her last months.  She couldn’t hold any food
    down, none of the anti-nausea drugs they gave her were working, so
    the fellow went out and bot his mom some hashish….cooked it into
    brownies and gave it to her.  [the doctor attending the lady knew what
    the son was doing, but "overlooked" it].  His mom responded
    well and her last several months of life were quite a bit more
    pleasant.

    I believe Marinol is available….at least it was being advertised in the
    New England Journal of  Med a year ago [quite discretely, I might add...
    there was no prescribing information with the ad]. Whether a doctor
    would be willing to prescribe it is an entirely different story.

    Face it, as long as we have an FDA that requires *nicotine chewing
    gum* to be prescription, how likely do you think it is they will even
    consider liberalizing the use of marijuana?

    I’d say close to ZERO.

  14. admin says:

    Camilla Cracchiolo (cami…@netcom.com) wrote:

    : Glyn Hanton (g…@crosfield.co.uk) wrote:
    : : Neil Johnson (n…@pokey.mc.com) wrote:
    : : : Ok, it seems the consensus is that marijuana MAY (no real proof yet
    : : : though) pose a very slight risk to fetal development. So the prudent
    : : : thing to do is avoid it.

    : : At this point, I was busy seriously disagreeing with you. I don’t think
    : : the prudent thing to do is avoid it at all. Seeing the other groups you’ve
    : : posted to (I’m reading this in alt.hemp) someone may be able to provide
    : : references, but I have never seen anything convincing saying that cannabis
    : : use is dangerous during pregnancy. I don’t suppose getting stoned off your
    : : face is a particularly clever thing to do, if for no other reason than
    : : the increased risk of general accidents, but I see no reason not to continue
    : : some mild use, especialy considering the fact that cannabis use could help
    : : with morning sickness as you have pointed out.

    : My source on the fetal effects was Cherry and Markatz _Complications
    : of Pregnancy_ 4th edition.  They cite 4 studies in there:

    : 1.  Greenland S, Staish D, Brown N, et al.  The effects of marijuana
    : use during pregnancy.  American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology
    : 1972;72.574-579

    : 2.  Hingson R, Alpert J, Day N, et al.  Effects of maternal drinking
    : and marijuana use on fetal growth and development.  Pediatrics
    : 1982;70:539-546

    : 3.  Kaminski M, Franc M, Lebouvier M, et al.  Moderate alcohol use
    : and pregnancy outcome.  Neurobehavioral Toxicology and Tetrology
    : 1981;3:173-181

    : 4.  Little RE, Graham JM, Samson HH.  Fetal alcohol effects in
    : humans and animals.  ADV Alcohol and Substance Abuse 1982;1:103-125

    : I assume that marijuana was mentioned in the fetal alcohol articles.
    : It would be worth looking up.

    I’ll try, but I don’t have access to a university library, or even a large
    normal one, so it may take me some time.

    : I don’t see why people feel the need to defend women smoking pot
    : during pregnancy.

    Because people keep attacking them ?

    : I think marijuana is pretty safe, certainly
    : safer than alcohol and I think it has a variety of medical uses
    : I also think it’s a damn shame that people with cancer, AIDS
    : glaucoma, chronic pain and muscle spasm disorders have to skulk
    : around like criminals if they want to use it.  As far as I can
    : tell, it has some distinct advantages over marinol, beginning
    : with the immediate onset of effect from smoking and the way
    : this allows people to more easily regulate dosage.

    : But pregnancy is a special situation.  Pregnant women are advised
    : to abstain from all kinds of otherwise innocous substances including
    : aspirin, caffiene, over the counter cold remedies, even an occasional
    : alcoholic drink.  Particularly during the first trimester, which
    : is when morning sickness is most likely to occur.  The thing is:
    : with pregnancy, one does not prove substances dangerous to the fetus.
    : Because of the risks, one must adhere to a higher standard of proof
    : and prove that a substance is *safe*.

    Well, with risk of getting into the realms of phylosophy. Why must we
    do this. Isn’t it possible that the mother could lose the baby because
    she is suffering and does not do something to cure the sickness. If
    she is having problems keeping down food and drink, isn’t that
    more dangerous to the fetus that smoking a little cannabis ?

    We must remeber that there are two distinct cases here. That of the
    mother to be using cannabis recreationaly, and that of using it
    medicinaly.  In the case of using it recreationaly, I can see your
    argument. I disagree besed on the fact that if we stopped doing
    everything that could possibly be dangerous then we would end up not
    doing anything at all. I don’t think we are going to agree on that one,
    unless I do see some specific texts that suggest that cannabis is more
    dangerous to the unborn child than I previously thought. I will try and
    check up on some of the texts you cited.

    On the second case though, that of the mother using cannabis as a
    medicine to cure the pangs of morning sickness, then considering
    the lack of an obvious conclusion from the data available, I would
    say the final decision must rest with the mother.

    : Because we cannot and should
    : not go experimenting on human women to prove this, we must rely
    : on animal studies and on those cases where the risks to mother or
    : baby are so great from illness that the potential dangers of a
    : medication are warranted.

    Well, this is more a subject of the ethics of medicine, but if a mother
    wishes to use cannabis during her pregnancy, then we should be
    correlating the results of birthweights etc if nothing else.  We
    obviously can’t do this though due to the illegality of the subject in
    question.


       Descartes thought an animal,          _     .
       That couldn’t talk,                  /##.,.##\          Glyn Hanton
       Couldn’t think, or so he taught,    #### ######
       But to summise,                     ###@   @###     g…@crosfield.co.uk
       My cat thinks otherwise.             ##/ v \##
                                              ` ~ ‘

  15. admin says:

    In article <RTwkkuti0r6G07…@kaiwan.com>,
    Dennis R. Hilton <DRHil…@kaiwan.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com>,
    >freeb…@netcom.com (William L. Mahan) wrote:

    >>I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >>surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    >>can’t use heroin in the USA either.

    >I just responded to a post in a sci.* group, and received, via snail,
    >an info packet on Marinol published by its manufacturers.

    >It is indicated in:

    >1) anorexia secondary to AIDS

    >2) nausea/emesis caused by chemo-therapy

    >Put *that* in your pipe and smoke it ;)

    Problem is, there is a great deal of paperwork to be done if you want
    to prescibe these things in the US. What can’t be understood, either
    in the UK or Stateside
    is that a GP has at least 10 years practice as a medical student,
    intern, junior doctor and finally as a locum before he will be a
    GP. In my opinion, I’d say that a doctor should be able to prescribe
    what he wants, and not have some idiot pen-pusher tell him.

    Look, I’m doing a medical course here in the UK, and I really strongly
    believe that, in cases like this, because of the variability amongst
    individuals, inhalation has to be the route of choice because it
    allows individuals to choose the dose which has the highest amount of
    relief with the lowest amount of psychoactive effects. Remember that
    (AFAIK) there isn’t a single anti-emetic on the market which doesn’t
    have these effects. From my point of view as both an occasional user
    and as a medical student, I’d say that, at the current moment, smoking
    is the most effective route of administration. now if marinol was
    available as an inhaler, then I’d say that this would be the best drug
    to presribe.

    All I say is that we want medical marijuana now, and if something
    better is found in the future, we’ll use that. However, this is now,
    and something must be done.

    Andy L.

  16. admin says:

    In article <39egtm$…@engnews2.eng.sun.com>,
    Robert Allen <r…@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
    >In article A…@netcom.com, freeb…@netcom.com (William L. Mahan) writes:
    >>Marijuana is marijuana.  Just because it is labeled for medical use only
    >>does not imply that is somehow different from the street variety, though
    >>the potency is regulated.  And since marijuana is smoked, the smoking
    >>itself can cause effects on the blood flow to the fetus.  The presence of
    >>tar in the lungs decreasing the efficient flow of oxygen to the bloodstream.

    >It is my understanding  that MJ can be eaten as well as smoked.
    >Haven’t you ever heard of  the stereotypical "MJ brownies"?

    Problem is that it is difficult to regulate doses. With medical
    marijuana (no implications about strength) you want to get the highest
    possible effect with as low level of psychoactive effects. It is far
    easier to regulate this by inhalation because the effects have a
    faster onset than oral administration.

    Andy L.

  17. admin says:

    In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com>,
    William L. Mahan <freeb…@netcom.com> wrote:

    >I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    >can’t use heroin in the USA either.
    >–

    Marinol has been available for years in the US, recently it received
    extended FDA approval for improving appetite in AIDS patients.

    In Oncology it has not been found to all that useful in most patients but
    does work for some and is completely legal when prescribed unlike
    marijuana.

  18. admin says:

    Adam (awilm…@saturn.acs.oakland.edu) wrote:

    : >What About Medical Marijuana for Pregnant Women?

    : first of all, let me just say it pisses me off with all the liberals that
    : scream "legalize marjiuana"!

    Thank you Adam. So does that mean when a former Republican, turned
    libertarian says it you aren’t pissed ? And by the way, in the UK (where
    we have many readers, I beleive ‘pissed’ is connotation for stoned.)

    : We have THC available and therefore there is no need to legalize dope.  I
    : have heard of the 8 people in the US that have a presciption for marjuana
    : and I listened to a radio station that interviewed one guy who described
    : how he would pick up joints in a
    : nice tin can from the pharmacy, he of course had this prescription for
    : glaucoma.  Why smoke the stuff, we have enough smokers out there.  THC is
    : already being used, esp. in the chemotherapy population, maybe we just
    : need to formulate it in different forms (I can see it now: people
    : stopping in the streets and puffing on what looks like and asthma inhaler!)
    : and another problem with people
    : just picking up a joint to "treat" themselves is that a dose is not
    : standardized if you buy it from different hoodlums.  The very idea behind
    : medicinal therapy is achieving specific therapeutic blood levels.

    Well, as I understand it, smoking is significantly easier to ingest for
    many that NEED it’s effects. Try swallowing a horse pill when you feel like
    puking. Or just sit back and wait for an hour or so with severe muscle spasms.
    As for your vision of the future, why invest millions of $$ into a fake
    THC delivery vehicle ? The ultimate is available now. People only need to
    hit the street corners because of our wonderful government. With legality,
    it’s at the drug store (or grow your own).

    : Another thing is the problem with THC getting stored in adipose tissue,
    : IT STAYS IN THE SYSTEM FOR LONG PERIODS, that is why we can detect it in
    : people with blood and urine test, unlike compozine which is cleared from
    : the system in a fair amount of time.

    Close, but actually, the THC breaks down quite rapidly. What is left behind
    are metabolites. Harmless and not in any way indicative of impairment.

    : If you feel like you want to experiment with another life (especially one
    : that is not yours), you may want to consider the ethical realms of it.

    : Wait until research can back up your little experiment with your wife and
    : child.

    I agree with you here. Prenatal care is extremely important to the development
    of a healthy fetus. But it sounded like the legal alternative was real scary
    to the health of the mother.

    : As far as being miserable with the pregnancy, you would think she would
    : have learned her lesson from the first time.

    Sounds like you’ve been there ?

    : Abrupt, to the point, and no BS–just my 2 cents.

    Abrupt, yes most prohibitionists are.
    To the point, well, OK.
    No BS. Actually a fair amount in there.

    : -Adam

    Keith

  19. admin says:

    In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com> William L. Mahan,

    freeb…@netcom.com writes:
    >: There’s always Marinol if that can be proscribed. Everyone seems to
    say
    >: it’s not as good (possibly due to the fact that you are missing the
    other
    >: cannaboids, and it’s not as easy to regulate dosage), but if it’s the
    >: choice of that or something that makes you into a vegetable, maybe the
    >: doctor would proscribe that.

    >I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    >can’t use heroin in the USA either.

    It is available, but I do not think it is used too much.

    For chemotherapy induced nausea, a very good med is ondansetron (5-HT3
    blocker that does not mess with the dopamine receptors, I think).  This
    med is a lot more effective than many other antiemetics.  I am not sure
    about its use during pregnancy, as I think it has only been approved for
    chemo induced nausea.

    >—Lee

    ———————————-

    You can blow out a candle,       Matthew Emme
    but you can’t blow out a fire.     emme0…@gold.tc.umn.edu
    Once the flame begins to catch,         KB0DER
    the wind will blow it higher.

    **PGP key sent on request***
    **Get PGP and use PGP!!!!!!!***
    **Read alt.security.pgp to find PGP***

  20. admin says:

    >>It is my understanding  that MJ can be eaten as well as smoked.
    >>Haven’t you ever heard of  the stereotypical "MJ brownies"?

    >Problem is that it is difficult to regulate doses. With medical
    >marijuana (no implications about strength) you want to get the highest
    >possible effect with as low level of psychoactive effects. It is far
    >easier to regulate this by inhalation because the effects have a
    >faster onset than oral administration.

    The alt.hemp people should have a better handle on this than me, but
    I’ve heard there is a compound created in the burning of hemp that
    counteracts the anxiety that can be experienced by some who use the
    drug.  As far as I know, Marinol does not have that extra compound.
    It probably should, maybe even moreso if for inhalation because of the
    faster onset of effects.

    ————————–

    Russell Gelinas
    eos/unh
    geli…@ekman.unh.edu

  21. admin says:

    Yup. There is no difference in "US sanctioned" medical mary j,
    but many medicate themselves with street pot any way, since only
    9, or is it 8 now? people are legally prescribed. I know one of these
    people, Elvy Musikka. I have seen what the government gives her….
    I don’t think I’d smoke it… I was bummed when I first saw what it was,
    cause I had all these visions of the ‘killer dope’ or whatever, and there
    it was, a nasty brown weed, with the twigs and leaves left in it, and it was
    not left as bud,  either , the fucking g boys chop the shit up, sticks and
    all, then roll it for her…. She says the first thing she does with a new
    prescription is take it outta the paper and moisten it, she says they dry it
    out too much (probably sits in a wherehouse getting stale for months…)
    Any way, if you know someone with cancer, or aids, try and turn them on
    to some fairly good buds, if they agree and haven’t smoked before, they
    will call you a life saver afterwards.
    Fuck the LAW, WE ARE RIGHT! And the spineless nazi boys KNOW IT, don’t you?

    Long live the electron, long live cannabis indica! (Sativa is for paper 8-))
    MC

  22. admin says:

    Whoever the guy who said something about liberals wanting to legalize
    our fine gift from God should check his misguided fascist rulebook…
    It is PROHIBITION which is the liberal idea you fuck!
    As our national leader, Richard Cowan said:
    "Prohibition and Communism are both abberations of the 20th century"
    And The first Republican to ever be president,  Abraham Lincoln
    said about prohibition, that it was the worst type of law man
    could pass, because it sought to make criminals over night
    of those who are NOT criminals. What IS criminal though is letting
     the facsist fucks called the DEA, decide what can and can not
    be used as medicine, let alone the one plant which has been used
    as medicine sice the dawn of man. You sir and your war on drugs
    are the tax and spend liberal fucks, so don’t come around here
    with your anti Constitution prohibition, whiskey drinking,
    cigar smoking bad ass self and spout off your proof of how
    out of it you are, we don’t care to hear it, but if you insist,
    I will insist on flaming you with Life, Liberty, the Pusuit of
    happiness, my mom, a slice of apple pie, and of course, a fat blunt,
    so you can really see the light, ok?
    On a serious note, however, I love you brother and pray for your soul
    to be enlightened.
    MC

  23. admin says:

    In article <Cyyty7….@news.cis.umn.edu>, Matthew A. Emme <emme0…@gold.tc.umn.edu> writes:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > In article <freebirdCysFGx….@netcom.com> William L. Mahan,
    > freeb…@netcom.com writes:
    >>: There’s always Marinol if that can be proscribed. Everyone seems to
    > say
    >>: it’s not as good (possibly due to the fact that you are missing the
    > other
    >>: cannaboids, and it’s not as easy to regulate dosage), but if it’s the
    >>: choice of that or something that makes you into a vegetable, maybe the
    >>: doctor would proscribe that.

    >>I don’t believe Marinol is available in the US, in fact I would be
    >>surprised if it was, since it is affiliated with marijuana.  BTW…we
    >>can’t use heroin in the USA either.

    > It is available, but I do not think it is used too much.

    > For chemotherapy induced nausea, a very good med is ondansetron (5-HT3
    > blocker that does not mess with the dopamine receptors, I think).  This
    > med is a lot more effective than many other antiemetics.  I am not sure
    > about its use during pregnancy, as I think it has only been approved for
    > chemo induced nausea.

    It has also been approved now for prevention of surgically related nausea and
    vomiting.

    Rob Silverman, R.Ph.

  24. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    In article <39ta3i$…@mozz.unh.edu> geli…@ekman.unh.edu writes:

    >>>It is my understanding  that MJ can be eaten as well as smoked.
    >>>Haven’t you ever heard of  the stereotypical "MJ brownies"?

    >>Problem is that it is difficult to regulate doses. With medical
    >>marijuana (no implications about strength) you want to get the highest
    >>possible effect with as low level of psychoactive effects. It is far
    >>easier to regulate this by inhalation because the effects have a
    >>faster onset than oral administration.

    >The alt.hemp people should have a better handle on this than me, but
    >I’ve heard there is a compound created in the burning of hemp that
    >counteracts the anxiety that can be experienced by some who use the
    >drug.  As far as I know, Marinol does not have that extra compound.
    >It probably should, maybe even moreso if for inhalation because of the
    >faster onset of effects.

       Well, I’m no chemist, but I know of nothing particular
    about burning marijuana which produces different chemicals.
    I’m not saying its impossible though.

       I did want to say that the comparison of marinol to
    marijuana is bad, however, because marinol is nothing more
    than synthetic delta-9 THC in sesame oil.   Marijuana has
    around 400 chemicals in it, 30 or so of which are
    cannabinoids, unique to the plant.   Several of these
    cannabinoids are more sedative in effect than THC, so perhaps
    this sheds some light on the anxiety issue.   However, these
    elements would still be present in brownies.

       Keep in mind that different strains of marijuana contain
    different concentrations of the cannabinoids, and the effects
    of most of these cannabinoids is still undetermined.   Also,
    there is almost no knowledge of the effects of these in
    conjunction with each other (god, I hate linear thinking!), so
    the comparison of marinol to marijuana is pretty useless.
    Marijuana users will tell you that the ‘high’ obtained from
    different strains of pot ‘feel’ different, probably due to the
    non-linear relationship of the numerous chemicals involved.

       It is known that none of these chemicals are toxic.   Ergo,
    it would be pretty easy to start doing research into the other
    chemicals in marijuana and their interaction, but, of course,
    that would be logical, and logic isn’t the strong suit of the
    DEA, who block just about every attempt to understand more
    about marijuana.   In the mean time, subjective opinions are
    all we have to go by.

    Sean

    Sean Simpson
    ssimp…@cs.ucsd.edu

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